Julia Curlee was a long-time CIA officer; she served as Vice President Mike Pence’s briefer for more than a year; and she was a senior NSC official when the second Trump administration began. She is also a trans woman. In two articles published recently—this one on Lawfare and this one today in The Atlantic—she describes the purge of the NSC in the first 70 days of Trump’s second presidency. In the Lawfare article, she talks about the institutional damage to U.S. national security. In The Atlantic article, she talks about the personal side—how she was considered too essential to let go even when everyone else was fired. That lasted until the moment it became public that she was trans. Curlee, who currently serves as a public service fellow at Lawfare, sits down with Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk about both articles, the purge at NSC, and being trans in an administration that badly needed her expertise but didn’t let her use the bathroom.

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