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Upali interviews Monica Heiser, a teacher in the insight lineage Mindfulness in Daily Life (MIDL).  Monica is one of the few guests we've had on the show who is a fulltime school teacher, so she and Upali talk about how this informs her pedagogy.  She and Upali talk about effort and overeffort in practice, and how this can lead to big distractions such as lust for jhanas, and they contrast this with the positive feedback loop of wellbeing that comes from balanced practice.  You can read more about Monica at https://monicaheiser.com/meditation-awakening/ and more about the lineage at https://midlmeditation.com/

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