In this July Seed Chat, Greg Peterson, Bill McDorman, and Landen Schaelling explore how compost, fungi, microbial life, and living plant roots work together to build healthier soil. Landen explains why keeping plants growing is more important for long-term soil carbon than simply adding organic matter, and why fungal-rich compost can help store the carbon plants produce. The conversation covers cover crops, composting methods, curing, moisture, carbon-to-nitrogen ratios, chop-and-drop, crimping, and compost extracts.
Our Guests: Landen Schaelling is the founder of Sacred Soil Solutions. He is focused on bringing optimal and approachable microbe inputs to gardeners and homesteaders, while also teaching farmers in the American West how to implement soil building solutions at scale.
And Bill McDorman has committed his life to community-based seed stewardship. In 1984, he started Seeds Trust High Altitude Gardens, a bioregional mail order seed company that he ran for 28 years. He authored the book Basic Seed Saving in 1994, and in 2010 Bill and his wife, Belle Starr, founded Seed School.
Key Topics
- Compost and soil health
- Fungal-dominant compost
- Soil food web
- Cover crops and living roots
- Rhizophagy cycle
- Microbial fermentations
- Liquid carbon and soil carbon storage
- Thermophilic composting
- Johnson-Su composting
- Bokashi
- Carbon-to-nitrogen ratios
- Chop-and-drop and crimping
- Compost curing and moisture
- Landen Schaelling / Sacred Soil Solutions
Key Questions Answered
Why are living plants more important than simply adding compost for long-term soil improvement?
Living plants act as the soil's “income earners,” putting liquid carbon into the soil through their roots. Compost can support that system, but keeping roots in the ground is what continually feeds the soil food web.
What makes compost truly valuable?
The goal isn't simply the solid organic material. High-quality compost provides a living community of fungi and other soil food web organisms that can interact with plant roots and help store plant-derived carbon.
How can you encourage fungal growth in compost?
Landen recommends a high-carbon pile, roughly 60–70% carbon, along with consistent moisture. Chunkier wood chips can help encourage fungal activity, and the compost needs a long curing period for the microbial community to develop.
How long should compost cure?
After the heating phase, Landen recommends roughly nine to 12 months of curing with consistent moisture around 50–60%. He describes seeing a significant increase in fungi, protozoa, and other soil food web organisms as the compost matures.
Should compost be sifted?
Landen strongly recommends against sifting mature compost because it adds oxygen, dries the material, and can damage fungal hyphae. The living organisms on the compost matter more than producing a perfectly fine, crumbly product.
Can weeds function as cover crops?
Some weeds can contribute positively when they are temporarily left growing, but not all weeds provide the same benefits. Landen specifically notes that context matters and that some weeds can be less supportive of fungal relationships.
What is the difference between chop-and-drop and crimping?
Chop-and-drop can create a rapid release of nitrogen, while crimping breaks the stems without completely severing them, allowing nutrients to move more slowly into the root system. Either approach works best when another crop is ready to capture the released nutrients.
How often should microbial fermentation sprays be applied?
Landen says plants can benefit from very frequent, even daily, applications because they respond well to small amounts delivered consistently. However, he emphasizes that less frequent applications can still provide significant benefits when time is limited.
What should consumers look for when buying compost?
Landen recommends asking compost producers for microscope analysis. He argues that microscopy provides important evidence about the biological quality of the finished compost.
Episode Highlights
- Living plants, not dead organic matter, are the primary “income earners” that build soil carbon.
- Cover crops keep roots in the ground and continually support the soil food web.
- Fungal-rich compost helps capture and store the carbon produced by plants.
- A compost pile with roughly 60–70% carbon can encourage strong fungal development.
- Thermophilic composting is only part of the process; long-term curing is critical.
- Maintaining 50–60% moisture for nine to 12 months allows fungi and other soil organisms to develop.
- Sifting compost can damage fungal hyphae and reduce biological quality.
- Crimping can provide a slower nutrient release than chop-and-drop.
- The goal of compost is not simply decomposition—it is developing and applying microbial life.
- A fungally dominant compost can be extracted into water and applied directly rather than aerated like a bacterial tea.
Calls to Action & Resources
- Attend future live Seed Chats — https://seedchat.org
- Listen to previous Seed Chats — https://urbanfarmpodcast.com
- Learn about Sacred Soil Solutions — Contact Landen Schaelling directly for information on Microbe Master Mix and educational resources. Instagram: @sacredsoilsolutions
- Facebook: Landen Schaelling
- Email: Landen.schaelling@protonmail.com
Our monthly Seed Chat at SeedChat.org
In This Podcast: In this month's Seed Chat Greg Peterson and Bill McDorman, discuss .
Visit UrbanFarm.org/1002 for the show notes and links on this episode!
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